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	<title>Comments on: So your employer owes you $100M&#8230;.</title>
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		<title>By: Intelligent Speculator &#124; More proof that compensation limits do not make sense&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/investing_commentary/so-your-employer-owes-you-100m/comment-page-1/#comment-3883</link>
		<dc:creator>Intelligent Speculator &#124; More proof that compensation limits do not make sense&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/?p=1029#comment-3883</guid>
		<description>[...] a few months ago when it was reported that Citigroup trader Andrew Hall was earning a 100$M annual bonus? Many expressed the opinion that it was crazy, an exageration and that no one should be making that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a few months ago when it was reported that Citigroup trader Andrew Hall was earning a 100$M annual bonus? Many expressed the opinion that it was crazy, an exageration and that no one should be making that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/investing_commentary/so-your-employer-owes-you-100m/comment-page-1/#comment-3689</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/?p=1029#comment-3689</guid>
		<description>The 1 Bn profit earned by Philbro may sound big, but it does not necessarily demonstrate efficiency of Mr Hall &amp; team. It was Citibank&#039;s money that Philbro used for doing trading or investments and generated 1 Bn profits. One needs to see how much leaverage or credit risk they utilized, how much risk they placed on Citigroup, and, compare these numbers with their earnings. Sure, if Citigroup gives 100 billions to play with, any smart person will be able to place bets and earn 1 Bn in profits, thats just 1% he earned putting the bank at risk for 100 Bn. That does not deserve 100 million reward.

Second point is the ethics through which Philbro team placed bets and earned money. This unit trades heavily on the oil and gas taking advantage of fluctuating prices of crude oil and refined oil (gasolene, etc). The production cost of per barrel of oil is less than 20 dollars, however, end users pay around 70 dollars, and, a big chunk of that inflated price is due to heavy trading activity in the commodities market. Oil and Gas is being used like shares, the profits generated are coming out of the pockets of you and me - the ordinary guys that drive cars and must fill their tanks, or, average Joe&#039;s that need their house heated in the winter. This average Joe has no choice, he did not enter into the commodities market, he is not trading, but, he pays !! it is different scenario in the stock market, where Joe makes a concious choice of doing investment - if he pays or loses on his stock, then it is fair because it was his gamble. But for essential commodities, average person is not even in the market but plays outstandingly high price due to trading.

Think about this -- if someone trades on the Honda cars or Toyota cars and due to which their cars are 50% higher in cost -- will you ever buy them ? Absolutely not. You can afford to skip them because these are not essential commodities. And that is why no one is trading on such items. But they trade heavily on essential commodities - Now you know why. 

It is not just Citigroup, but all big financial firms, private firms (read - everyone that has abandunce of money) flexes their financial mussle in such markets where average Joe is paying, and, they have their &quot;talent&quot; dream team like Mr Hall.  Citigroup has no shame in taking billions of bailout from average Joe, give that to their dream team, and, share the gravy with Mr Hall where he can own a castle and fine art. Citigroup has nothing to lose - the initial investment came from average Joe, the profits are made at the cost of hardship to this Joe, so, what&#039;s harm sharing the 10% gravy with Mr Hall ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 1 Bn profit earned by Philbro may sound big, but it does not necessarily demonstrate efficiency of Mr Hall &amp; team. It was Citibank&#8217;s money that Philbro used for doing trading or investments and generated 1 Bn profits. One needs to see how much leaverage or credit risk they utilized, how much risk they placed on Citigroup, and, compare these numbers with their earnings. Sure, if Citigroup gives 100 billions to play with, any smart person will be able to place bets and earn 1 Bn in profits, thats just 1% he earned putting the bank at risk for 100 Bn. That does not deserve 100 million reward.</p>
<p>Second point is the ethics through which Philbro team placed bets and earned money. This unit trades heavily on the oil and gas taking advantage of fluctuating prices of crude oil and refined oil (gasolene, etc). The production cost of per barrel of oil is less than 20 dollars, however, end users pay around 70 dollars, and, a big chunk of that inflated price is due to heavy trading activity in the commodities market. Oil and Gas is being used like shares, the profits generated are coming out of the pockets of you and me &#8211; the ordinary guys that drive cars and must fill their tanks, or, average Joe&#8217;s that need their house heated in the winter. This average Joe has no choice, he did not enter into the commodities market, he is not trading, but, he pays !! it is different scenario in the stock market, where Joe makes a concious choice of doing investment &#8211; if he pays or loses on his stock, then it is fair because it was his gamble. But for essential commodities, average person is not even in the market but plays outstandingly high price due to trading.</p>
<p>Think about this &#8212; if someone trades on the Honda cars or Toyota cars and due to which their cars are 50% higher in cost &#8212; will you ever buy them ? Absolutely not. You can afford to skip them because these are not essential commodities. And that is why no one is trading on such items. But they trade heavily on essential commodities &#8211; Now you know why. </p>
<p>It is not just Citigroup, but all big financial firms, private firms (read &#8211; everyone that has abandunce of money) flexes their financial mussle in such markets where average Joe is paying, and, they have their &#8220;talent&#8221; dream team like Mr Hall.  Citigroup has no shame in taking billions of bailout from average Joe, give that to their dream team, and, share the gravy with Mr Hall where he can own a castle and fine art. Citigroup has nothing to lose &#8211; the initial investment came from average Joe, the profits are made at the cost of hardship to this Joe, so, what&#8217;s harm sharing the 10% gravy with Mr Hall ?</p>
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		<title>By: IPlatotle</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/investing_commentary/so-your-employer-owes-you-100m/comment-page-1/#comment-3502</link>
		<dc:creator>IPlatotle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/?p=1029#comment-3502</guid>
		<description>I liked it the way they did it in post W.W.II days until Kennedy, including during Eisenhower&#039;s presidency. Tax the wealthy at the 90% level.  The economy did great those years, much better than now, in fact. And charity for the poor caused much less national indebtedness than giving to our wealthiest few has caused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked it the way they did it in post W.W.II days until Kennedy, including during Eisenhower&#8217;s presidency. Tax the wealthy at the 90% level.  The economy did great those years, much better than now, in fact. And charity for the poor caused much less national indebtedness than giving to our wealthiest few has caused.</p>
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		<title>By: Zavi</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/investing_commentary/so-your-employer-owes-you-100m/comment-page-1/#comment-3487</link>
		<dc:creator>Zavi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/?p=1029#comment-3487</guid>
		<description>there is no right answer! that&#039;s the problem!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is no right answer! that&#8217;s the problem!</p>
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		<title>By: IS</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/investing_commentary/so-your-employer-owes-you-100m/comment-page-1/#comment-3477</link>
		<dc:creator>IS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/?p=1029#comment-3477</guid>
		<description>but do you think they should not pay him for his performance then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but do you think they should not pay him for his performance then?</p>
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		<title>By: Zavi</title>
		<link>http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/investing_commentary/so-your-employer-owes-you-100m/comment-page-1/#comment-3463</link>
		<dc:creator>Zavi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.intelligentspeculator.net/?p=1029#comment-3463</guid>
		<description>I agree with you. You want to retain your key personnel, you will need to remain competitive with rivals. Performance will be rewarded by high salary and... bonuses! And for companies like banks that received government funds, it&#039;s a big issue... this is still our tax money!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you. You want to retain your key personnel, you will need to remain competitive with rivals. Performance will be rewarded by high salary and&#8230; bonuses! And for companies like banks that received government funds, it&#8217;s a big issue&#8230; this is still our tax money!</p>
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